In my experience, the amount of people who "get it" are about the same on both sides of Advertising and PR in brand communications. There are a few who want to get it done, a few who know they need to do it, a few who don't care, and a few who are against it. That is the problem. The people that "get it" need to suck it up, and get more people on board. The vast majortiy of people at least want to know. Advertising agencies are not your enemy. collin

Dave, I've been on both sides - I started my career as an ad copywriter, spent many years in PR and now do social media. I agree that PR is the natural leader for social media. It is about conversations. And I thought all advertising was supposed to sell the aspiration, not the product. Remember that old adage: 'Sell the sizzle not the steak' Too many ad campaigns are considered creative and brilliant and they win awards, yet they never actually increase sales.

I'm always happy to learn from other disciplines - however, of course, most advertising isn’t particularly creative, isn’t measured (ie in terms of ROI), isn’t targeted, doesn’t achieve anything at all and certainly isn’t great. The brilliant adverts that do all you say are very few and far between. Mind you, I’ve sat in enough "take to market" meetings where clients were persuaded to spend big money on advertising to the extent that they bought into an idea so much they lost all critical faculty and then couldn’t criticise it when it didn’t work as they’d been the champion of it. That’s the real skill of many advertising agencies in my view.

Stephanie - I'm with you. I lead the social media practice in a PR agency. I agree that PR agencies are very well positioned to take a leading role in social media. This post was about things we can learn from advertising's approach - I'm not arguing that they should lead. Measurement etc may not always be the most important factors in a social media campaign, but I would argue that these factors ARE very important parts. Thanks for sparking a useful conversation.

I was totally lured in by this headline but I have to confess, am not sure your points support your (very!) provocative thesis. And full disclosure, I'm president of a PR firm that very much believes in our discipline's right to shepherd social media outreach for our clients -- for all the reasons you state in your opener. Yeah, PR people DO know how to create conversations and nurture relationships with influencers (assuming here for sake of argument that in the social media space, EVERYONE is an influencer) -- so I was intrigued to see what you thought our advertising compatriots have to teach us about being effective in the SoMe realm. And while many of your points are perfectly valid, I'm still not convinced advertising people are any better equipped than PR people to handle brand interaction in this arena. If leveraging scale, understanding audience targeting and measurement were the hallmarks of effective social media outreach than yes -- you've made your point and ok, maybe advertising wins. But I maintain those are NOT the key skills needed to get it right in the blogosphere, on Twitter and in all the other realms where brands struggle to connect "one to one" with consumers with authenticity and timeliness. You did raise one point, though, that I think is very well taken -- advertising agencies are set up more effectively to foster breakthrough thinking. I've discussed this with advertising friends ad nauseum -- account management, strategic planning and creative are three distinct skill sets and ad agencies staff client accounts accordingly. PR firms (by and large) do not. We are asked to be all things to all people and I'm the first to admit that a great account director is not necessarily a creative genius. I think it's great that your agency has hired a creative from advertising and can only imagine the terrific work that will yield. So thanks for the provocative post, and for inviting the discussion.

The points you make about "scale" and "measure" are the things that I feel get missed by the folks who argue that proving ROI isn't necessary. The only reason that people aren't expected to prove ROI is that the scope and ambition of the projects are so limited. If PR is going to own a larger percentage of the overall marketing budgets, this will have to change.

Nice post, Dave. I'd build on "target your audiences" by adding that good advertising, like good PR, starts with a great understanding of the target. This knowledge stems from smart research that forms the basis of the big ideas that engage, influence and activate people. Companies that combine advertising and PR as part of research, planning and implementation should be able to deliver great programs.

I would add a sixth one: Stories Connect. Stories can connect to people's emotions, connect people to products and services, connect customers to the humaness & personality of a brand, connect new product uses to the public, etc. Story telling is an art and people love inspirational, creative, funny, unusual and motivational stories. Stories can help refine a message for niche audiences.

Iu00e2u0080u0099ve been visiting your blog for a while now and I always find a gem in your new posts. Thanks for sharing.

In my experience, the amount of people who "get it" are about the same on both sides of Advertising and PR in brand communications. There are a few who want to get it done, a few who know they need to do it, a few who don't care, and a few who are against it.

That is the problem.

The people that "get it" need to suck it up, and get more people on board. The vast majortiy of people at least want to know.

Advertising agencies are not your enemy.

collin

Dave,

I've been on both sides - I started my career as an ad copywriter, spent many years in PR and now do social media.

I agree that PR is the natural leader for social media. It is about conversations.

And I thought all advertising was supposed to sell the aspiration, not the product. Remember that old adage: 'Sell the sizzle not the steak'

Too many ad campaigns are considered creative and brilliant and they win awards, yet they never actually increase sales.

I'm always happy to learn from other disciplines - however, of course, most advertising isnu00e2u0080u0099t particularly creative, isnu00e2u0080u0099t measured (ie in terms of ROI), isnu00e2u0080u0099t targeted, doesnu00e2u0080u0099t achieve anything at all and certainly isnu00e2u0080u0099t great. The brilliant adverts that do all you say are very few and far between.

Mind you, Iu00e2u0080u0099ve sat in enough "take to market" meetings where clients were persuaded to spend big money on advertising to the extent that they bought into an idea so much they lost all critical faculty and then couldnu00e2u0080u0099t criticise it when it didnu00e2u0080u0099t work as theyu00e2u0080u0099d been the champion of it. Thatu00e2u0080u0099s the real skill of many advertising agencies in my view.

Stephanie - I'm with you. I lead the social media practice in a PR agency. I agree that PR agencies are very well positioned to take a leading role in social media.

This post was about things we can learn from advertising's approach - I'm not arguing that they should lead. Measurement etc may not always be the most important factors in a social media campaign, but I would argue that these factors ARE very important parts.

Thanks for sparking a useful conversation.

I was totally lured in by this headline but I have to confess, am not sure your points support your (very!) provocative thesis. And full disclosure, I'm president of a PR firm that very much believes in our discipline's right to shepherd social media outreach for our clients -- for all the reasons you state in your opener. Yeah, PR people DO know how to create conversations and nurture relationships with influencers (assuming here for sake of argument that in the social media space, EVERYONE is an influencer) -- so I was intrigued to see what you thought our advertising compatriots have to teach us about being effective in the SoMe realm. And while many of your points are perfectly valid, I'm still not convinced advertising people are any better equipped than PR people to handle brand interaction in this arena. If leveraging scale, understanding audience targeting and measurement were the hallmarks of effective social media outreach than yes -- you've made your point and ok, maybe advertising wins. But I maintain those are NOT the key skills needed to get it right in the blogosphere, on Twitter and in all the other realms where brands struggle to connect "one to one" with consumers with authenticity and timeliness. You did raise one point, though, that I think is very well taken -- advertising agencies are set up more effectively to foster breakthrough thinking. I've discussed this with advertising friends ad nauseum -- account management, strategic planning and creative are three distinct skill sets and ad agencies staff client accounts accordingly. PR firms (by and large) do not. We are asked to be all things to all people and I'm the first to admit that a great account director is not necessarily a creative genius. I think it's great that your agency has hired a creative from advertising and can only imagine the terrific work that will yield. So thanks for the provocative post, and for inviting the discussion.

The points you make about "scale" and "measure" are the things that I feel get missed by the folks who argue that proving ROI isn't necessary. The only reason that people aren't expected to prove ROI is that the scope and ambition of the projects are so limited. If PR is going to own a larger percentage of the overall marketing budgets, this will have to change.

Nice post, Dave. I'd build on "target your audiences" by adding that good advertising, like good PR, starts with a great understanding of the target. This knowledge stems from smart research that forms the basis of the big ideas that engage, influence and activate people.

Companies that combine advertising and PR as part of research, planning and implementation should be able to deliver great programs.

I would add a sixth one: Stories Connect. Stories can connect to people's emotions, connect people to products and services, connect customers to the humaness & personality of a brand, connect new product uses to the public, etc. Story telling is an art and people love inspirational, creative, funny, unusual and motivational stories. Stories can help refine a message for niche audiences.