Great post. I have a related beef - which is that PR people too often draw conclusions based on inadequate sample sizes. Reading two stories about something does not equate to understanding a trend. Before numbers can be crunched and trends analyzed, the volume of data needs to be substantive and comprehensive. I think too many PR folks out there are making willy-nilly guesses based on very partial sample sizes (a story they read; what a single exec whispered in their ear was important).

Dave Fleet is absolutely right. It's not about understanding a blended rate or building a budget [DF: comment edited to comply with comment policy]. It's about understanding strategy: HR strategy, legal strategy, finance strategy, etc. Financial Dynamics just did a study about how communications people are involved in business strategy. The discussion at last week's PR Council/PRSA breakfast devolved a bit into whining about why we aren't included. Someone from Northwestern's undergrad biz school made the point that MBAs who understand the bigger business picture are absent from the discussion. He's right. Our industry has abandoned, or never embraced, bigger picture business thinking. And that MUST change.

As a student nearly 25 years ago, I never realized the value of the statistics class the communications department at Illinois State required. In my 20+ years working in PR I appreciate it. One other big math need in PR - how to build an accurate budget. I'm amazed at how challenging this is for many.

http://www.mentalfloss.com/store/product.php?productid=16298&cat=103&page=1 So there. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) ;) I suspect those of us who got into the black arts of business (marketing, PR, community building, etc.) via less formal channels are at an even greater disadvantage. I didn't get much practical business learnin' in school, and while I've learned plenty since on the job, you tend to learn what people need you to learn/do, not what would probably prove handy long-term (unless they know they're going to need you to do that stuff, too). Additionally, at bigger companies, more analytical tasks are likely done by others (mid-level management, in my experience), or, in small companies, possibly not at all, depending on how early-stage they are. Don't know what's to be done for those already out in the workforce, aside from taking the bull by the horns yourself. Certainly something for companies to keep in mind for their leaders of tomorrow, though -- co-ops, new grads, etc., if there are useful skills missing from their quivers to make them more effective and valuable employees.

Right on Dave! Measurement Matters! A lot!

Wow, did you ever miss the most important reasons why PR people need math .. so you can calculate weighted blended rates when asked, designing event budgets that come in under 10 percent of estimates, looking at agency capacity vs. actual client work, calculating growth on accounts year after year, comparing salaries against billable time, reading P&L statements, reading a clients annual report numbers, creating realistic budget retainers for clients ... the list goes on and on and on ....... the more senior a PR person gets in an organization (especially agency side) the more math becomes your friend! Nice post dave ...

We're doing PR students a disservice by not including analytics, research and analysis in coursework. I suffered from that same deficiency until I worked for a marketing firm, where we lived and died by the numbers. It was a very valuable work that showed, yet again, that we can't divide the work between these silos of PR, marketing, advertising, sales and (oh my!) social media. It's not cross-training, it's seeing the whole picture.

I, generally a math-hater (although I took and did quite well in a graduate-level quantitative analysis class that include statistical analysis via SPSS), somewhat begrudgingly agree with you, Dave. The good news is, though, that many of the most essential math tasks that a PR pro may face are achievable so long as one can balance his/her checkbook (something I've got down to a science at this point). And no matter what profession you're in, you should be able to balance your checkbook anyway. ;)

You bring up many excellent points in this post, Dave. Applicants for PR positions are often given writing tests. I wonder how many include math/analysis tests as well?

Heather beat me to the punch. Understanding a balance sheet, a P&L statement, that's the math that really matters. Not to minimize your examples, Dave, because they are good ones, but you really can't emphasize enough how important it is to be able to talk intelligently about financials and business with senior management. @arikhanson

Right on Dave. I'm thinking that the PR Pocket protector might be a good giveaway at the next tradeshow ;) Thanks for mentioning the webtrends integration. Most folks are used to tracking specific links coming back to their website but where this gets cool is that you can now track how the greater conversation in the social web is driving visits (visits by topic in a way.) Of course you can reverse this too and figure out which words or phrases drive the most interest to your site as well (a great mix of numbers and words :) The other cool aspect of measuring the numbers also lies in the Salesforce integration we also announced at the same time. But I won't spill the guts on that one here (needless to say lots more cool ways to measure the numbers related to social media efforts.) 10-4. @davidalston Radian6

Heather - you're absolutely, 100% right about that. What's more, we need to go beyond our own departments and campaigns and be able to understand business financials if we want PR to have a seat at the senior management table.

I've written about PR and maths several times myself - but note that you miss one of the most important reason for understanding numbers: Budgeting and accounting - this is a real strategic stumbling block for PR practitioners if they cannot understand let alone discuss the financials with their senior colleagues. At the more tactical level, we need to put together budgets and manage the money for campaigns and departments to be taken seriously.

Excellent post, Dave. You're so right. PR people and journalists alike really need to be comfortable with numbers. I cringe every time I see someone use the word "rate" mistakenly, for example. I was not thrilled with a statistics class in grad school, but I'm glad it was required.

Good post, however it does bring back trauma from my Grade 13 Calculus class which like Stuart above, did not end well (dropped the course and took American History instead). I am fortunate to come from a family of chartered accountants, I can do the math needed for PR, understand a balance sheet and put together a budget.

I remember taking PR in college and hearing the outrage and protest when math was part of an assignment (NB: Everyone actually had to *pass* a math test to get into the Algonquin PR program) I think it's a mental block with PR people more so than not having the skills. I always think I'm bad at math, but really when I understand the value and reason behind it, I *like* calculating statistics or doing analysis. I guess it's fitting that I ended up at a PR measurement firm (MediaMiser)! But great point Dave, and note to PR people everywhere, math is fun (and easy) when you understand the purpose of it!

Score. I'm some what neutered in math due to my trying to take Calculus my Freshman year in college (it didn't end well). However, I do understand the necessary math to break down marketing charts, ROI, and trending news/information. Without that base line knowledge I could NOT do my job. Math is essential...we in PR just like to call it something else though usually ;)

Great post.

I have a related beef - which is that PR people too often draw conclusions based on inadequate sample sizes. Reading two stories about something does not equate to understanding a trend.

Before numbers can be crunched and trends analyzed, the volume of data needs to be substantive and comprehensive. I think too many PR folks out there are making willy-nilly guesses based on very partial sample sizes (a story they read; what a single exec whispered in their ear was important).

Dave Fleet is absolutely right. It's not about understanding a blended rate or building a budget [DF: comment edited to comply with comment policy].

It's about understanding strategy: HR strategy, legal strategy, finance strategy, etc. Financial Dynamics just did a study about how communications people are involved in business strategy. The discussion at last week's PR Council/PRSA breakfast devolved a bit into whining about why we aren't included. Someone from Northwestern's undergrad biz school made the point that MBAs who understand the bigger business picture are absent from the discussion. He's right. Our industry has abandoned, or never embraced, bigger picture business thinking. And that MUST change.

As a student nearly 25 years ago, I never realized the value of the statistics class the communications department at Illinois State required. In my 20+ years working in PR I appreciate it. One other big math need in PR - how to build an accurate budget. I'm amazed at how challenging this is for many.

http://www.mentalfloss.com/store/product.php?productid=16298&cat=103&page=1

So there. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) ;)

I suspect those of us who got into the black arts of business (marketing, PR, community building, etc.) via less formal channels are at an even greater disadvantage.

I didn't get much practical business learnin' in school, and while I've learned plenty since on the job, you tend to learn what people need you to learn/do, not what would probably prove handy long-term (unless they know they're going to need you to do that stuff, too).

Additionally, at bigger companies, more analytical tasks are likely done by others (mid-level management, in my experience), or, in small companies, possibly not at all, depending on how early-stage they are.

Don't know what's to be done for those already out in the workforce, aside from taking the bull by the horns yourself. Certainly something for companies to keep in mind for their leaders of tomorrow, though -- co-ops, new grads, etc., if there are useful skills missing from their quivers to make them more effective and valuable employees.

Right on Dave! Measurement Matters! A lot!

Wow, did you ever miss the most important reasons why PR people need math .. so you can calculate weighted blended rates when asked, designing event budgets that come in under 10 percent of estimates, looking at agency capacity vs. actual client work, calculating growth on accounts year after year, comparing salaries against billable time, reading P&L statements, reading a clients annual report numbers, creating realistic budget retainers for clients ... the list goes on and on and on ....... the more senior a PR person gets in an organization (especially agency side) the more math becomes your friend! Nice post dave ...

We're doing PR students a disservice by not including analytics, research and analysis in coursework. I suffered from that same deficiency until I worked for a marketing firm, where we lived and died by the numbers. It was a very valuable work that showed, yet again, that we can't divide the work between these silos of PR, marketing, advertising, sales and (oh my!) social media.

It's not cross-training, it's seeing the whole picture.

I, generally a math-hater (although I took and did quite well in a graduate-level quantitative analysis class that include statistical analysis via SPSS), somewhat begrudgingly agree with you, Dave. The good news is, though, that many of the most essential math tasks that a PR pro may face are achievable so long as one can balance his/her checkbook (something I've got down to a science at this point). And no matter what profession you're in, you should be able to balance your checkbook anyway. ;)

You bring up many excellent points in this post, Dave. Applicants for PR positions are often given writing tests. I wonder how many include math/analysis tests as well?

Heather beat me to the punch. Understanding a balance sheet, a P&L statement, that's the math that really matters. Not to minimize your examples, Dave, because they are good ones, but you really can't emphasize enough how important it is to be able to talk intelligently about financials and business with senior management.

arikhanson

Right on Dave. I'm thinking that the PR Pocket protector might be a good giveaway at the next tradeshow ;)

Thanks for mentioning the webtrends integration. Most folks are used to tracking specific links coming back to their website but where this gets cool is that you can now track how the greater conversation in the social web is driving visits (visits by topic in a way.) Of course you can reverse this too and figure out which words or phrases drive the most interest to your site as well (a great mix of numbers and words :)

The other cool aspect of measuring the numbers also lies in the Salesforce integration we also announced at the same time. But I won't spill the guts on that one here (needless to say lots more cool ways to measure the numbers related to social media efforts.)

10-4.

@davidalston
Radian6

Heather - you're absolutely, 100% right about that. What's more, we need to go beyond our own departments and campaigns and be able to understand business financials if we want PR to have a seat at the senior management table.

I've written about PR and maths several times myself - but note that you miss one of the most important reason for understanding numbers:

Budgeting and accounting - this is a real strategic stumbling block for PR practitioners if they cannot understand let alone discuss the financials with their senior colleagues. At the more tactical level, we need to put together budgets and manage the money for campaigns and departments to be taken seriously.

Excellent post, Dave. You're so right. PR people and journalists alike really need to be comfortable with numbers. I cringe every time I see someone use the word "rate" mistakenly, for example.

I was not thrilled with a statistics class in grad school, but I'm glad it was required.

Good post, however it does bring back trauma from my Grade 13 Calculus class which like Stuart above, did not end well (dropped the course and took American History instead).

I am fortunate to come from a family of chartered accountants, I can do the math needed for PR, understand a balance sheet and put together a budget.

I remember taking PR in college and hearing the outrage and protest when math was part of an assignment (NB: Everyone actually had to *pass* a math test to get into the Algonquin PR program)

I think it's a mental block with PR people more so than not having the skills. I always think I'm bad at math, but really when I understand the value and reason behind it, I *like* calculating statistics or doing analysis. I guess it's fitting that I ended up at a PR measurement firm (MediaMiser)!

But great point Dave, and note to PR people everywhere, math is fun (and easy) when you understand the purpose of it!

Score. I'm some what neutered in math due to my trying to take Calculus my Freshman year in college (it didn't end well).

However, I do understand the necessary math to break down marketing charts, ROI, and trending news/information. Without that base line knowledge I could NOT do my job. Math is essential...we in PR just like to call it something else though usually ;)